Talk:Nintendo DS

Roguelikes
Who started putting Roguelike instead of RPG to the Dungeon Crawlers and even some RPGs? Are you crazy? Calling Fighting Fantasy a Roguelike is incredibly idiotic. Just look on Youtube or ANYWHERE if you don't know what a Roguelike is. If you're trying to say that Fighting Fantasy looks like Rogue, or like Nethack, you're saying that they're fast paced, first person, action RPGs, I would say you clearly don't know what a Roguelike is. You're saying Oblivion is a Roguelike. You're saying the Ultima Underworld series is a Roguelike. You're incredibly out of your mind. Also first person dungeon crawlers with random encounters are _not_ Roguelikes too. Stop this bullshit. Thankyou. --Sataaa 19:46, April 5, 2011 (UTC)

Anti-Piracy
Can we please remove all comments about "mean" Anti-Piracy? Eventually there will be Firmware Updates for all recommended card, and eventually there will be patches for all games, so why include this shit? Cheap DSTT poorfags everywhere!

Comments about "mean" anti-piracy might reflect entries that have not been updated in a few months. For some bad choices of flashcarts (especially R4 clones/YSmenu) then this anti-piracy games are a concern --RupeeClock 13:13, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

Is this Wiki about recommending good games, or about helpging anon, who can't google, battle piracy?

-I haven't noticed anything, but I guess I skimmed over the list. Just don't get a G6, that shit's deader than dead. Rapi2 15:10, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

aligning
ah fuck, I don't know how to make these all look aligned. God damnit. If anyone knows how to make all the categories lined up, do it. For now I just put the code "|<'font color=#FFFFFF>Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Echoes of Time into every single one, lol. It's like a really inaccurate space filler - so yeah. If anyone else can figure this out, do it. I'm a wikinoob. Zachncheeze 07:22, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

addition
Should add Super Robot Taisen OG Saga: Endless Frontier

Atlus game where you play a Space cowboy surrounded by tits. Other then the gratuitous fan service, there is a pretty good battle system--76.4.83.246 16:33, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

This is a wiki. If there's something you think should be added, add it. I will this time, but c'mon. SelfTitledAlbum 16:41, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

tried. couldn't figure it out. sorry.--76.4.83.246 02:58, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

== Advance Wars: Days of Ruin == "Most balanced?" Lolno, how bout those moving and attacking battleships, easy-mode dusters, and lol-I-capture-you motorcycles?

68.20.0.65 19:50, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

homebrew
I know it, you know it, we all now it, /v/ is pirates. Damn near every DS enthusiast on /v/ owns a flashcart, regardless if they want to use it for piracy or legitimate reasons.

Since a lot of people looking here would own a flashcart of some sort I thought a recommended homebrew list would be a good idea, it's amazing what homebrew can do for a system.

Do you think a homebrew list belongs below the games list? I'm going to add what I think are some worthwhile homebrew to the list anyway.--RupeeClock 19:19, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

You're absoloutely right. -- User:Anonymou

I don't know how you use this newfangled wiki thing, but how's about adding VNDS to the homebrew list? /v/ seems to enjoy a VN discussion more than /jp/ anyways from what I've seen. Who knows? Maybe if they get more attention they'll convert more VNs faster or something. I don't know how that works. --True Neutral 20:47, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

Alphabetical order?
This page, as well as many others, sorely need to be put into alphabetical order.

Come on people, we're not five years old... I hope. MFGreth1 01:35, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

The listing is based off the original recommendation image used on /v/, and it doesn't translate from groups to tables very well. Yeah it needs to be sorted out, but at least you can click those boxes at the top of each column to sort all the rows. --RupeeClock 01:40, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Unofficial DSiware to consider List
Asphalt 4- Elite Racing: A pretty good racing game with a bit of depth. Centers around drifting, nitro-boosting, slamming into rivals, and collecting cash for customization. You can drive a car or speed along on a motorbike. There's actually quite a bit of stuff to be bought, and there's multiple gameplay modes, so it's a pretty good deal.

Thorium Wars- A rather expansive title that involves tank and space fighter shooting action. A solid title, but gets a bit tough at times.

Also, Coming Soon (later this year, early next year):

Reflection- A curious platformer that involves traversing both screens simultaneously.

Shantae: Risky's Revenge- Shantae from GBC makes her return. The first of 3 episodic installments.

(Thanks to all who have made suggestions on hits and misses.) --Dejiko 03:26, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

Thanks to whoever added the Official DSiware list. I added a few things to it and made some minor edits here and there. --Dejiko 15:18, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

How about some Dark Void Zero? It's got that 8-bit nostalgia feel to it. Cats777 01:31, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

I was actually going to add that to the main list today! Thanks for reminding me. Dejiko 02:53, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

scribblenauts is balls.
The game was added quickly.

The truth of the game, is its really fun and impressive for an hour. Within this first hour of fun, is when it was added. After that time, the game is one of the most frustrating experiences in all of gaming. MOST items do nothing, controls are among the worst of all time, and overall the game is not recommend-worthy. --174.112.118.226 03:00, September 28, 2009

I agree personally for the same reason Drawn to Life isn't in the list, it has a gimmick but the core game is pretty mediocre and badly executed. (So badly that 99% of the action levels can be beaten using handcuffs and a basket) A lot of other users might disagree though, we should put this to a vote. --RupeeClock 05:46, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

I, for one, would leave it on the list, so that's one vote for yea vs two nays. - MFGreth1 14:08, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

I get a billion hijillion kazooillion votes and I say it stays. Because you can grind a game doesn't mean that it's a bad game. You can solve the levels with a small selection of objects or a wide selection of objects, whatever you wish. It's not quite as amazing as it was hyped up to be, but there has never been anything in the history of ever that's lived up to its hype. I can update the description to reflect the mixed feelings. Kotep 06:56, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

I just came here to say that Scribblenauts is balls. Really. It gets old in less than one hour.--189.39.33.244 12:11, November 26, 2009 (UTC) edit: just came by to say who that was (me)--Sataaa 11:35, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

What's the consensus on RIZ-ZOAWD/The Wizard of Oz: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road
I heard the gameplay was a bit on the basic side, but rather inventive, and that the bosses were the only real challenge. In addition to that, I heard it had a surprisingly impressive story. And while this is a bit personal, I think the style is quite well done. I'm curious on anyone else's opinion though. --Dejiko 03:55, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

I haven't got much chance to play it, but from what I've heard it's pretty mediocre. From what I've heard it's got amazing graphics but pretty mediocre gameplay and frustrating controls. It is by the team who does Wild ARMS though (Media.Vision). I'd hold off until I get more of a chance to play it and if I feel it's worthy of spreading via the wiki I'll add it. SirTeffy 14:42, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the update. I've heard mixed things myself. If by controls you mean the trackball right? That's where a good chunk of mixed opinions come in. I heard the gameplay was a bit different to say the least, what with the ratio system and all. Knowing it's by the Wild Arms team is quite intriguing though. --Dejiko 15:59, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Sands of Destruction
So, should it be added to the list? What do you guys think of it? My impression so far is that it's pretty good if what you're looking for is a traditional JRPG. It has nice music as well. But fuck the main character's voice, but that's not entirely a flaw I suppose.

I disliked it. The battles were disappointing (Combo system seemed interesting but ended up being mash X/Y to win), the puzzles were poorly designed (Fuck that one where you go day night day night), the voice acting was pretty bad and the story...well, it's a JRPG (Ending is terrible). The only redeeming factors were the characters' aesthetics and the sprite animations. --Anonymous 13:40, May 6, 2011 (UTC)

Upcoming Releases: What should be included in the real list?
Alice in Wonderland DS: 

Well it's sorta like Yoshis Island, nice artstyle, doesn't take itself too seriously. Starts slooooow though. If Yoshis Island DS makes the list than this one should also be considered. 3yearold 12:57, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

Picross 3D:

As addicting as it gets, and I'm usually not into puzzle games. I say it's worth including. 3yearold 12:57, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

Sonic Classic Collection:

I personally wouldn't recommend Sonic Classic Collection, it's literally just jEnesisDS but with nerfed Sonic roms that removed all of the cheats, and doesn't let you pause with the pause button because that would enable level select/debug mode in Sonic 3&K.RupeeClock 19:58, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

General game discussion
Boringly deleting my comments/summarizing them for less clutter possibly. I won't delete other people's comments because I don't think I should. Prism: Light the Way, simple puzzle game with many variations of the same puzzle, I added it to the list and was thinking maybe it shouldn't be on it. Puzzle Quest Galactrix, just noting that this game is not on the list, everyone supposedly hates it, I haven't played it. --Silverwilver (talk) 03:36, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

imokwiththis.jpg Those games were all in the old style lists in pic format and look legit enough for me. The Elebits description is a complete mindfuck to me though, but I didn't play the game so I can't fix it. Someone else please?El zabbo 18:09, August 7, 2010 (UTC)

The only one I played is Elebits, I can't remember it much because, well, it wasn't that memorable but I remember good music and cute graphics, it can stay imo. Rapi2 15:30, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

I'm changing Away to Puzzle/Adventure, because that's what it essentially is. DESPITE TONS OF DUMBASS REVIEWERS ragging on it for not being like Zelda, despite the fact that it had no inkling to ever be Zelda. That said, I absolutely loved everything about it. Dejiko 05:28, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

I added Metriod Pinball along with Spectral Force Genesis, but I can't seem to get the image sizes to stay the proper size. I've already uploaded the images, I'd appreciate if someone could paste and resize them for me. Also, Metriod Pinball could use a better description. Mantastic 20:40, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

IIRC, wasn't SFG done by former members of Sega's DragonForce team (the game, not the band)? I do remember reading that even though it was similar to DragonForce, they didn't really quite play alike. So, that may be something to NOT put in the description. Just for the sake of not misleading anyone. Dejiko 01:48, August 24, 2010 (UTC)

Added Kappa's Trail and Crystal Monsters. Both of which were alot harder than I thought they'd be (FUCKING MINI-KAPPAS HOW DO THEY WORK), but also alot better than first glance would give them credit for. Especially Crystal Monsters. Fucking first boss wiped the floor with my ass, and he was just a damn bird. Anyone else try 'em?

This is just a note that there isn't any Yu-gi-oh on the list. I've played Nightmare Troubadour which might be good for people who like yugioh before the synchro crap but game has the normal myriad of stupid game mechanics. And here are some notes of other games I liked or found notable.

Tornado which is like Katamari Damacy where you "collect" random items with a whirlwind and other stuff. I did not find it fun but is the only thing like Katamari Damacy on the DS.

MySims Kingdom Has a crafting system somewhat to craft houses, furniture, and plants indoors and outdoors. Earn cash via not so horrible minigames. Has many bland characters and the expected limited customization of a DS Sims game.

Eco Creatures  you save the rainforest by summoning various little creatures with magic and trees. also you fight robots. also dancing. also bosses are fun. sorta.

There is also Theme Park which is your basic cheaply made EA sims game. Look at it if you like theme park sims.

Silverwilver 10:46, August 30, 2010 (UTC)

I only played MySims on the Wii, I'm assuming the DS version is a dumbed down version of that? Idk, but the Wii version is fun and cute. I don't see problems in adding. And just out of curiosity, how good is MySims Agents, if anyone knows.

Regarding Tornado and Eco Creatures I can't say much, I'm surprised I've never heard of them before.El zabbo 12:03, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

More games I played and found slightly entertaining.

Pic Pic is like picross where you solve stuff to make pictures. You either solve a maze, connect a mass of numbers grid style (not like connect the dots), and color blocks based on numbers that tell you how much blocks are colored in the 9x9 squares around them. The first two types of puzzles are easy but the third one is pretty hard to learn how to solve and more time consuming. There are a few tips that are useful when playing the last puzzle type at gamefaqs and the game has a tutorial. the images aren't as nice looking like in picross, especially pictures made in the mazes, but there are 400 of each type. I think it's a good game if you need another puzzle game in your collection.

Ilust Logic Ds + Colorful Logic is picross minus the animations and tiny minigames but with more stuff which is probably good. Obviously, there are also some picross like puzzles that use different colors as well but the rules are slightly different. Different colors can be connected dot to dot, unseparated by an "X" so you should only do so when the next number of dots is the same color or the whole line is completed. There is something somewhat like picross 3D where you solve smaller parts of a whole picture.

These are pretty awesome and well done and I'd add them to the list if I weren't lazy. The last one is japanese though. Silverwilver 02:07, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

/v/'s recommended DS flashcarts?
There's been a lot of discussion around flashcarts on /v/ recently, especially since Heart Gold/Soul Silver was dumped.

We should construct a list of recommended (and not recommended) Flashcarts.

There's Acekard, Cyclo DS, DSTT, R4, M3i Zero, Supercard DSOne, and many more.

Personally, I would recommend the Acekard and Cyclo DS, and write up about how the R4 is outdated, and the official team is gone.RupeeClock 20:03, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

Nice idea, but really what can you write? It boils down to: get a Cyclo or AceCard if you want to save a little money / don't care for the feature overload. What may be worth discussing is using slot-2 devices to play GBA games and so on, but information on that matter is easily aquired via google or the Cyclo forum. If you wan't to write an article, by all means do so and I'll try and help with it, but I really think that would be like loves labours lost. Especially since the talk about it will die down pretty soon. Pokemon doesn't last forever. Peace. 3yearold 20:39, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

Oh true enough, certainly, but even with the passing of pokémon you will still find a lot of people using an R4 that suddenly isn't meeting their expectations, everytime they want to play /v/'s current popular DS title. I may start up a template of flashcarts to stat pros and cons of, since some flashcarts have their own pecularities, and I don't own all the models. RupeeClock 20:42, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

Here's a template for the flashcart guide. Icons courtesy of this thread on GBAtemp: http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=213692

The question is, does this get added to this article, or made as a separate article?

I personally would like to have everything in one place: Recommended games, upcomig games, DSi ware, Flashcarts, homebrew... But that would make the article hella long, and seeing how upcoming games now have they're own list, maybe we should make a DS homebrew page. That page would be the perfect place for Flashcarts, Slot-2 devices (if anyone can be bothered) and homebrew games and applications. You ARE pretty damn fast, by the way. 3yearold 22:20, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

Well I'm mostly hoping to get something started here, I mostly only contribute when I feel like it.

A separate page for homebrew and flashcart devices is a good idea, they're each small enough to make a large enough article together.

You could probably add a small guide about microSD memory too.

That's a good idea. I was kinda confused by that whole memory thing when I started using flashcarts. It's also great to see someone helping out with anything DS related here, so Brofist. 3yearold 22:40, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

You know what? http://vsrecommendedgames.wikia.com/wiki/DS_Homebrew

I'll work on it in the next days. But for now I just added your list and put up some general markers. 3yearold 23:33, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to start a non-games page. Opinions?
I really like the DS article, I mean with this page and gaming reviews I've found a lot of great games for my DS. It's bothering me though that there is a lot of the DS library that is pretty enjoyable/useful but is difficult to find out about because they are not "traditional" games. I'm talking about stuff like Jam Sessions, 100 Classic Books, the cookbooks, brain training stuff, etc.

I've been looking for these non-games and instead of adding them to the already-long-as-it-is DS page I'd like to start a page listing good (as in useful and/or enjoyable) DS "non-games" so I'd like to know your opinion. The main problem that I see is where to draw the line between games and non-games. For my preliminary list I'm picking "games" that lack a losestate and since (afaik) sim games in general are traditionally considered games I'm leaving Simcity Creator and Nintendogs out.

Preliminary list (with preliminary comments when I could think of one):

LIST START

100 classic books (NA) 100 classic book collection (UK)

America's Kitchen Let's Get Cooking

Korg DS 10 - check Korg Plus for DSi

Kanji Sonomama Rakubiki Jiten - Japanese dictionary with handwriting recognizition.

DS Kageyama Method - Tadashii Kanji Kakitori-Kun - Kanji learning game. It's aimed at kids, so it's a bit unforgiving with the stroke order of your kanjis.

Minagara Oreru DS Origami - Fold paper to make origami, clear animations, cool voice control. In Japanese but completely usable even if you don't know the language.

DS Bimoji training - Practice japanese calligraphy, comes with a special (read: GIGANTIC) stylus.

My Japanese Coach - Good for a beginner, even better if you know the basics. Decent pronunciation and a different interface than the awful interface of the rest of My [Language] Coach series.

Nazotte Oboeru Otona no Kanji Renshuu Kaiteiban - The third entry of this great kanji practice game. Please note this series is aimed at adults, so you may want to start with Kakitori-kun.

Personal Math Training

Jam Sessions

Jam Sessions 2

Big Brain Academy

Brain Age 2

Electroplankton

Art Academy - The DS game mixes both DSiWare titles Art Academy First and Second Semester, adding more reference photos and more frames for your work, but on the flipside you can't save to a SD cart as with the DSiWare ones. It's DSi compatible, so you can use the camera if you have one.

Kanken DS 2 Jouyou Kanji Jiten - The second entry of the KanKen series, allegedly the best general kanji learning game out there, you should know a lot of Japanese before tackling it, though, otherwise stick with Kakitori-kun or Nazotte.

Imasara Hito ni wa Kikenai Otona no Joshikiryoku Training DS - The (in)famous Japanese (infamously Japanese?) common-sense training

99 no namida - 99 stories designed to make you cry (literally, a psychologist choose the stories so you could cry and be healthier... somehow). In Japanese.

LIST END

1) English is not my native language, so sorry if my grammar is a little funky sometimes.

2) As my list shows, yes, I'm a weeaboo, so sue me.. Ok, seriously now, I can see how the last two could not be recommendation-worthy, but are weird enough that personally I'd like them to be on the list. I'm OK if they don't make it, though.

3) What do you think? Games I'm missing? Games that shouldn't be here? A better definition of game? This is ridiculous and non-games shouldn't be in the vsrecommendedGAMES wiki? These titles suck and the ones that don't should go to the DS page? Nmanma 02:50, November 15, 2010 (UTC) Nmanma 02:55, November 15, 2010 (UTC)

SOME of these are what can be consider a game. It's entertaining even though unique and educational it's still a game. It doesn't have to have shooting, level-grinding, fist-punching, platforming, etc. do be a game. Although some at the very most are considered apps and you do raise a very good point. I don't think however it should be necessary to make a whole new page about it. What you COULD do is start a sub-genre on the DS page like (Non-games or Unique something like that).

What's really funny is that people are still editing here even though we all moved. I guess people don't really want to leave and head to the new wiki even though this new layout sucks. 68.5.4.80 08:35, November 15, 2010 (UTC)

I think some of them may warrant a page. We'd have to include other systems though. especially stuff like Mario paint. --Dejiko 13:35, November 15, 2010 (UTC)

Silly me, I thought I'd get a mail when this page were edited, so I hadn't checked 'til now. Did we move already? I'm posting here because the other page (the one on shoutwiki) says I should keep my edits here until the database is dumped there.

I liked the subsection idea, I'll work on that and wait until the move to the other page is done to bring it up there. Thank you for your comments. Nmanma 21:49, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

Tokimeki
I came here to put Tokimeki in here a while ago but an admin took it off. I was like fuck it and went and played like 20 hours more of it and found there's a LJ comm and a bunch of girls who signed up on GBAtemp just for the patches. I'm pretty sure a lot of people like those games, the translation is solid and the 2nd one is coming out this month. Please add Tokimeki Memorial :( Rapi2 19:31, December 5, 2010 (UTC)

Just add it back in. Just make sure it has a proper description, pic, etc. Haipayazoo 21:25, December 5, 2010 (UTC)

Seconding this, though it would really support your cause to link the community and patch (most can just find the actual game by themselves so don't worry about that), too. It'd also be good to add to the VN section. A shame that's the only one I'm aware of that has a patch. --Dejiko 22:18, December 5, 2010 (UTC)

Zenonia DSi
Hmmm. Well son of a bitch. This game suddenly caught me off guard. I hated it at first, but the more I played, the more I grew to like it. --Dejiko 01:56, October 1, 2011 (UTC)

Organization of Genres
There's something I'm not really sure about. Since the list is organized by genre, rather than alphabetically, how are the genres organized? For instance, is it alphabetically (for instance, Action, then Adventure, then FPS, then RPG?) I would like to reorganize the list, but I don't want to mess it up with any assumptions.Jarsh 19:37, February 8, 2011 (UTC)

I think originally, it was organized by whatever could be thought up with at the time. Technically, they SHOULD be alphabetized, but due to the convenient sort buttons, we can let that solve our problems. I think at this point, it's just easiest to properly group games with their respective genre-kin, regardless of genre order. --Dejiko 01:29, February 9, 2011 (UTC)

Alphabetized lists are much less daunting to newer contributors as they can append a recommendation in its lettered order. Due to genre fusions it's much harder to pinpoint where to place a mixed game (e.g. Puzzle / RPG, or FPS / Survival Horror), and most people just put it at the end and let someone else sort it. - Kierke 04:04, February 9, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Kierke. It looks much better this way now, thanks. Hopefully it stays this way. Also, "Again" has about a 54% on Gamerankings, and I originally changed it to red to reflect this. I'm going to change it back because I think that low of a percentage is deserving of a red. Jarsh 04:21, February 9, 2011 (UTC)

I dunno why, but the boxarts seem to flow better because of the change (aesthetic Feng Shui maybe?). It probably took a decent bit of effort for this, so my props, yo. --Dejiko 17:24, February 9, 2011 (UTC)

Split the list for usability and variety
I was thinking for some time; there are a couple of games in the list that aren't really very good but still deserve a mention because some people might enjoy them. On the other hand there are a couple of games (or apps) missing from it that are enjoyable (at least for some people) but not totally awesome (Star Fox Mission, Nintendogs, 100 Classic Books Collection, whatever).

I think it would make sense to split up the list into two parts (on the same page)

1. Games ranging from "undisputable top ten all time dope tripple A games" to "genuinely good and well received".

2. Games worth checking out for some people or at least worth getting a mention here because they are very overlooked.

That way the list would become less cluttered and the "easy picks" would be all in one place for people who just got a Flashcart or are new to DS. At the same time the games that need to be appreciated with a grain of salt are less likely to go under or dissapoint people who compare them to Bowsers Inside Story because they are on the same list. We could also add some more interessting stuff. Of course we should explain in the comments section why we included stuff in the "B-List".

Anyways what do you think?

3yearold 19:23, February 13, 2011 (UTC)

Uh, NO. I've said it before, but it bears repeating: If you want the "Top ##" games that every magazine, reviewer, other website picks, then go to those websites for info. If somebody really don't know the biggest names of games, or at least games they want to play, then they need to stop living under a rock. We have thought about dividing sorts of "apps" on this page for a while, but there still aren't quite enough to really go about doing so. At least not as many good ones as one would hope. Besides, if we did this for one page, then we'd have to do it for all the other ones, and fuck that. And if it's just for flashcart crowd, then fuck them. --Dejiko 22:57, February 13, 2011 (UTC)

I'll just put this down real quick because I have to jet.

First off, thanks for the input, you are very knowledgeable when it comes to games, credit to team and also doesn't afraid of nothing, but this comment made me wonder if you really understood what I wrote. Maybe you just glanced over it real quick or maybe I was too sloppy when I put it down or something. I'll just clarify some stuff. The as you put it ""Top ##" games that every magazine, reviewer, other website picks" I don't know if you know, but they are already on the list at this moment. So are a lot of overlooked and niche games. We can agree on that I guess. All I proposed was organizing those games a little bit better because I theorize that would improve the usability of the list and (the part that i like most) give us a chance to include more games and hopefully bring more hours of fun to more people because they get to check out games they usually would have overlooked, without making the list any harder to understand or use by blurring the line between "good" and "bad" games like we try when we add red, yellow or green names for metacritic scores. And when it comes to stopping to live under a rock, I have to wonder: why does this wiki even exist then? We all have missed or overlooked games before I am sure, and we also have all been new to a system every once in a while. All the "recommend me a game" threads that lead to the early .jpg version of this wiki make me think so at least. And about having to do this for all systems, I'm not too sure about that. I know what you mean, it would be more neat and tidy but I'm not aware of any laws or guidelines that we are forced to comply with. I also think that the DS because of it's especally big library of games has more need (or let's say use) for a divided list like that, seeing how many games of the "worth checking out" or "worth a download and fucking around for a few hours with" and even the elusive"fun when you have a guide" variety there are. I agree though that it would require quite a bit of work, and in case it wasn't clear from my post I am perfectly willing to reorganize the list and write a batch of new articles on my own so that adding onto it in the future wouldn't be any trouble at all. I just don't feel like doing it only so that someone hits undo the moment I save it, and people around here have been known for good ideas so I just threw this idea out here a bit roughly for comments. Anyways, cheers.

3yearold 01:54, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

Meh, I'm not sure about the idea of splitting the main list into smaller pieces. This is a handheld. There are a lot of fun-for-an-hour, subjectively good B-List titles that some /v/-goers might enjoy. That's a lot of work to do. Contact, for example, was a game that I doubt even 2% of /v/ experienced. Was it overlooked? Certainly. Was it bad or undeserving of being amongst AAA titles? No, on the contrary, it means that someone in that 2% felt it was a genuinely good game to recommend. That wasn't your argument but I regard those games as equals based on opinion alone.

That's what distinguishes this wiki from the sites that segregate games by arbitrary score systems, paid critical analyses or sales figures: the /v/irgin's informal opinion and interests. It's nice to see niche titles amidst the titans, which helps make the lists a lot grander. I really have no sympathy for the people who criticize the quality of a niche game compared to a high profile entry. Just my 2 cents.

Did you genuinely enjoy the games you mentioned? Think they're worth a play even with diminished popularity or replayability? Append them to the list and give your opinion as to why they were good. - Kierke 05:17, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

Kierke took the words I couldn't even form right out of my mouth. Masterfully done. Yeah, there aren't any hard laws to comply with (aside from no trolling, spamming, false info, and a few other givens), nor would I or any other admin force them upon any of you. That said, I was never fond of Metacritic scores, but I know a number of people were. I personally think the best way to take them is how niche a game is. The lower the score, the more the odds are of a game being harder to get into, if you aren't an avid player of a genre. As for organizing and stuff, it isn't alot of work, sure, but outside of pages with very few entries, it's best to have some consistency, even with a popular page like this one. And yeah, I understood what you wrote, I just thought, and I say this in all honesty, it was kinda pointless in the long run. --Dejiko 19:51, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

There was previous discussion on this page about some non-games you mentioned. I think the best option would be to add a Non-Games page spanning all systems and have subsections for variety. For instance: edutainment, language coaches, music composer software (ref: Non-game, Edutainment).

It's obviously muddy territory so you can duplicate games that border on game/non-game, while adding the real learning items like Collection of 100 Books or My Brazilian Coach. - Kierke 00:37, February 16, 2011 (UTC)

Well I suppose if everyone here agrees then it wasn't a great idea. I suppose I get the idea that it wouldn't blend well with he flavour of this wiki. I still think it would improve the list in terms of variety and usbility. Jist like when we started adding upcomming games. You could argue that if one wants to know about upcomming games there are a lot of websites to go to, but I think having a page like that here has really proved helpfull because of the userbase here. I know that hasn't too much to do with what I was proposing, but you get the idea. Anyways, thanks for your input.

And about just adding the games to the list as it stands: I suppose I'll give it a think and add some but not all of them, most are just objectively too shitty imo.

The idea of having a page for the edutainment stuff is interesting, but then again as Dejiko pointed out; consistency, almost everything else is sorted by system, so maybe we should just put them inbetween the other games and use the "Genre" column for pointing them out as non-games. Then again if we open up a new article for edutainment stuff and apps, spanning all sysems, including PC it will get huge. 3yearold 16:54, February 19, 2011 (UTC)

>Then again if we open up a new article for edutainment stuff and apps, spanning all sysems, including PC it will get huge.

I don't think Edutainment page will be that huge. Especially if we just have the ones that are worth a damn (a majority aren't). I think most of the entries may be those of our childhood, like Math Blaster or the Munchers series, if only for nostalgia (then again, they COULD be handy for kids, but it depends on the kid and how patient they are with older games versus the flashy stuff they have now). As for the Upcoming Games page, the summaries are short enough, and the good thing about the page is that, for the most part, we can copy and paste into the respective system pages when they are released (or just erase them if they end up surprisingly bad). As for system sorting, just make a column with "system" and make it have a sort button. You're making this sound harder than it is. It's easy stuff, really. --Dejiko 19:58, February 19, 2011 (UTC)

Picture alignment and border
Hey guys I added Inazuma Eleven to the list but I'm having some trouble with the pic because I can't get it to look like the rest without that border and center aligned, if someone could explain how to do that or fix it himself would be great. Thanks in advance.El zabbo 18:22, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

On the line it had "|thumb|". In general this part isn't necessary as you already state the size with "###px". The wiki tables are always centered if it's in the header's code (e.g. style="text-align: center; ). The accepted method for most pages I've seen is:


 * Filename.jpg - Kierke 20:33, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Adding games problems
I've been adding a few games but when I do I seem to mess up several stuff on the table and I don't know why that happens because I just add a row in the table and that's it, I don't touch anywhere else. I had to undo my latest update because lots of things were affected like alignment and shit like that. Any ideas?El zabbo 17:27, March 11, 2011 (UTC)

I checked out your previous edit and everything was in order, it'd be fine to edit it back in. Aside from a few removed breaks nothing was harmed and the layout is intact. The format of the game you added was spot on.

As for why it happened, I think it has something to do with the new wiki layout's editor interface opposed to bare bones source editing. For my first Playstation edit I used the WYSIWYG mode (visual editing) and it inserted a bunch of breaks and screwed up the header when I didn't touch that portion. Not 100% sure it's the culprit, though. - Kierke 15:32, March 11, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks a lot man, I'll edit it back in then.El zabbo 17:27, March 11, 2011 (UTC)

Woohoo! Started the non-games/edutainment section!
I just started the non-games/edutainment section (I'm not usually this lazy, I swear). I was trying to put a definition or some kind of paramethers as a guide to what to add to the section in the introductory paragraph but I couldn't think of anything that would leave Tetris, The Sims, Simcity and virtual pets as games (they will always be games in my heart). I was thinking of putting this as a second paragraph in the introduction:

"Now, defining what's the difference between a game and a non-game and where are edutainment games in that debate is way beyond the scope of this page (but not this page's discussion, so feel free to debate there), so we'll have to trust your insctint on this one. If you really need a paramether to add titles to this section, you could try these: 1) You can't lose 2) It's fun 3) It's useful 4) It's not SimCity or The Sims. About the last we know it's an obvious patch rule, but that will have to do given the lack of a clear-cut definition"

But I'm not sure it adds anything or if it sounds good. Or if non-games and edutainment titles are really synonims :^I Nmanma 06:39, July 14, 2011 (UTC)

Giana sisters
Yeah, according to this page, Giana Sisters DS has only been released in Germany and Australia. However, I saw it in Gamestop in Sweden yesterday, with at least Swedish and Danish text on the backside of the box. After a little googling, I found out that it's been released in "Europe and Australia", so I'm changing it to that.Alex IDV 18:13, July 26, 2011 (UTC)

Lux-Pain
Do we really need Lux-Pain on the list? I know it's all just opinions, but it really wasn't that good of a game. Very poor pacing (with the main bad guy coming out of nowhere, with no real development), and atrocious localization which is unnacceptable for a text-based game. It seems misleading we have great stuff like Time Hollow, 999, Ace Attorney, etc., but we have Lux-Pain, which doesn't meet the standards those games may bring. Jarsh 07:01, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

I see where you're coming from. Okay then, let's make it official.

If we get 5 separate votes here, for the removal or against it, and be they IPs or users, we'll take it off or keep it then.

Personally, I think we should take it off. That, combined with you, makes 2, so we only need 3 other users to approve a removal or 5 others to keep it. --Dejiko 21:11, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

No! Keep it on! That's crazy. The list is not necessarily only for the obvious games like 999 or Ace Attorney. That's preposterous! I think that the list exists so that people may convey games that weren't popular or initially attractive or even that received poor judgment (by looking at its Metacritic color identification) and spread the word. I don't think that the list should restrict itself to the taste of few, but rather cover every possible taste a /v/irgin can have. The list is a reference and by no means a list of must-play games for every single person. If some of us liked Lux Pain, even though the majority didn't, I say keep it there.--Sataaa 21:25, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

I appreciate the sentiments, but at the same time if the translation is really bad in a text-heavy game, then that's something to consider. So, now we have 1 to 1, since I'll reserve my vote to be fair. --Dejiko 23:36, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

I think the description already mentions it sucking, so buyer be warned, it's not like the description is misleading whoever will think about playing it. Like I said, even the Metacritic score is there in bright red! (also I manually signed your post, I hope you don't care :P--Sataaa 01:47, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

It's not just the translation, though. It's the poor pacing, muddled plot (yes, even without the translation sucking), lack of decent character development, and out of NOWHERE bad guy. The reviews are actually well-deserved this time (I don't think the description mentions the whole game sucking, just the translation). Sometimes, a game just sucks, and I don't think it's fair to people looking at this list experiencing 999 and Ace Attorney only to pick up Lux-Pain and most likely go "what the fuck am I reading". If we recommend Lux-Pain, we may as well recommend the mediocre Lifesigns: Surgical Unit and the Jake Hunter games. Do you like Lux-Pain, Sataaa? Jarsh 04:06, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

Oh man, Lifesigns. What a disappointment that was. I heard the first Jake Hunter was bad, but supposedly the second was good, or did I hear wrong?--Dejiko 04:25, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

It was (a little less than) okay, to be honest. Pretty much nothing spectacular, but it's better than the first, yeah. It's just kind of a bland game, and I wouldn't really recommend it. Jarsh 05:17, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

No, I never played Lux Pain, it is probably horrible. But someone liked it enough to put it there, and I respect that. I also never played and think the following games are horrible: Atelier Annie, Coropata, The Rub Rabbits, Kira Kira Pop Princess/Pop Town, etc... And those are all on the list! I think that is the point, even if I don't think those games are good in ANY way, I don't care if someone likes it and puts it there on the list because, most likely, someone else will like it too.--Sataaa 16:06, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

Annie was fun, haven't played Coropata (but I know Incredible Machine is good), Rub Rabbits wasn't as good as Feel the Magic, but still fun, and KKPP+PT are fun guilty pleasures. That said, if you haven't even played the game, then it's pretty weird to defend it. Maybe you should play it before defending it, especially given the genre. I mean, I hate "I'm O.K." (freeware), but I played it before I hated it, and there's aspects I can personally see why it appeals to some people (more so action, less so the "humor").--Dejiko 16:06, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

I am defending whoever posted it. I haven't played all of the list and I am completely sure I will hate some of them. For instance, I tried and really hated N+. If I made a list, that would be at the "shit list" for sure. But I respect whoever put that there and the fact that they enjoyed it. I assume that more people will enjoy it because ONE of us liked it. That's my reasoning for leaving Lux Pain there. I am sure it must be as shit as you guys are saying, but also that means to me that it is as bad as N+. Also, Dejiko, remember to sign your posts!--Sataaa 22:30, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

I can actually see where you're coming from, Sataaa. But we have seen games (which, yes, one of us on this wiki has liked) pulled off the list. A while ago, I think Lifesigns: Surgical Unit was actually on this list before. I can offer my bias against the game, but maybe we should wait to see if other also dislike it (assuming enough people read this talk page here). Jarsh 22:53, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

Agreed, also: I don't see why signing my posts is important, but whatever, I'll flow with it. And just for kicks, I thought N+ was decent, although I found the PC version to be more enjoyable. --Dejiko 03:53, August 7, 2011 (UTC)

Well yeah, so what I'm hearing you say is: "Well, you may not like N+, but that's not coming off the list because I like it". I want to stand for the dude that added Lux Pain to the list. You may not like it, but he liked it. I don't care if people just took out games before this without even asking. This one is being asked.--Sataaa 15:41, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Uh, no. It's staying up there because it's a decent enjoyable game, man. All I'm saying is that I can justify it with personal experience. If enough people hated it, we would take it down. --Dejiko 05:51, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

This is your opinion: "it's a decent enjoyable game, man". To me it looks like a badly made flash game that got little to none effort put into it. It is worse than a few shovel ware or item-hunting games. But it's OK for you to disagree with me. That's why they're called opinions. It is not a fact.--Sataaa 16:25, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

"Badly-made?" Shit, man. Just fucking play it. Last time I checked, it's free (PC version) and it's pretty damn well made. The physics could be a little better, but compared to other platformers in flash, it's pretty damn good. Besides, the "item-hunting" is the main point, just like in Pac-Man, however, they justify it by having you deal with challenging jumps and numerous traps. This isn't an opinion, it is a fact. Have you played Lux-Pain yet? I'm pretty tempted to myself, but I'd like to know if you have first or not. --Dejiko 19:37, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

Like I said, I think N+ has poor design. I think it is a bad game no matter how you try to say it has some good points. I think it is a terrible game and if I thought that my opinion should go over other's, I would take it off the list. I have played N+, both the PC version and the DS version. I played it when it was really a standalone flash game, before it came out in any platform officially. It sucked then, it still sucks now. Like I said, if someone cared enough to put it there, I respect that. I don't think that my opinion on it being a terrible game should make it go off the list. And I already answered that question: I have not played Lux-Pain and I believe I would think it is terrible as you guys are saying it is. I'm just saying that the person that put it there probably didn't think it was bad. They wouldn't put the game there as a joke/troll/whatever. So I respect that as much as I respect the person that added N+, do you understand it now?--Sataaa 20:00, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

I understood it the first time. However, it's different when we have to consider a hack job effort versus a sincere one. Also, you didn't give any reason as to why N+ sucks at all. If you're really that sincere about defending it just for the sake of someone you probably don't even know, then you should go make a thread on /v/ and ask others what they think of it and post a screen-cap here. Then we can make sure that we can take it down or leave it up. Even if somebody put something up, that doesn't mean it's good, regardless of respect or compliance. A wiki was made to be edited. If there's something we like, we edit it in. If a game isn't agreed to be worthy of an entry, we can edit it out. If we aren't sure why it's there and potentially want to remove it, we talk about it, just like we do so now.

Also, I don't know what happened to "True Neutral"'s post just now. It seems we counter-acted each other, in which case I apologize about that.--Dejiko 20:10, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

That's the point! I don't want to elaborate on it because they are opinions. You are saying this: "Lux Pain is a badly translated game that looks more like a hack job than a real game". I wouldn't mind you even putting that in the game description on the list! Opinions should go there, add a /strike/ to the opinion you disagree with, but leave it there. I don't care enough to edit the N+'s description the same way I'm telling you to do in the Lux-Pain case. But I do care if you're taking off a game that someone sincerely added there thinking it was good. I am not knowledgeable in Voltaire's work, but I think the following applies here "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".--Sataaa 20:24, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

DSi list... Move to a new page?
I was hoping to shrink the DS page and move the DSi section to a new page. Mostly because there's a good handful of games to add that I know are good, but don't have enough experience with (i.e. haven't bought them and played them first hand), but also because it will be easier to link to from the DS and 3DS pages.

If anyone is for or against this, I'd just like to be sure. --Dejiko 01:58, October 1, 2011 (UTC)

Months later... I'm for it, I also want the discussion page to be shrunk as well. EDIT: though the only way to do what I want is to mail the commenter to delete their no longer useful post (well that's the nice way).--Silverwilver 22:45, March 7, 2012 (UTC)

Adding a Year/Date Released Column?
Seems like it's been forever since this place been updated, but I suddenly had an idea to include the date the game was released so people can look at the newest games that they don't have yet. As I, myself, am such a person. I don't see any reason why the list shouldn't have such a column other than it shortens the column size of the other columns. And the DS might soon be discontinued console. This could possibly be done for the other consoles as well.

And added rows for Harvest Moon: Tale of Two Towns and Nostalgia. Just didn't put much into them as I haven't even played them yet. --Silverwilver 22:45, March 7, 2012 (UTC)

There's no reason for a year/date column in anything other than PC and that problem has already been solved. This is because PC relies on specs and compatibility. No DS games or SNES games or Dreamcast games are going to change anytime soon. Thanks for the entries though. --Dejiko 04:56, March 8, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I feel the year column is still useful as another reason to have this column is that the list is fairly long (I would think the longest) and another identifier would be useful. The column might be only useful to find the the newest games instead of old ones though.--Silverwilver 05:59, March 8, 2012 (UTC)

>another identifier would be useful. The column might be only useful to find the the newest games instead of old ones though. How so? I don't think anyone cares enough to do that so much as they care what a game is or what it's about. As for "the newest games" people are already going to know those. --Dejiko 03:10, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

So this page is more for people new to the DS than returning people looking to learn what is new? I certainly don't know what the newest games are. Am I supposed to make a thread at /v/ for this? If so, what use is this page? As the Year Column is mostly for newly released games, only for those games this column should be filled, I don't expect the column to be filled for all games (though probably might as well), and sadly it's difficult enough to know if someone added a new game to the list. There isn't much they can do to make the game to be noticed more if it was released not too recently. --Silverwilver 06:36, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

>So this page is more for people new to the DS than returning people looking to learn what is new? It's for anybody looking for something new to them or that they might have missed or quickly getting an idea of what a game is like. >As the Year Column is mostly for newly released games, only for those games this column should be filled The point of columns is to be sorted. If you only do it for a handful, there's no reason to have it >I don't expect the column to be filled for all games (though probably might as well) The problem is there's no point for this. At all. >sadly it's difficult enough to know if someone added a new game to the list. We have page changed history for that. >There isn't much they can do to make the game to be noticed more if it was released not too recently. That's what we have page history, gamefaqs, and wikipedia for. That's idle curiosity that doesn't effect a modern console/portable-based game's description of its quality at all, nor does it affect its performance on a system, unlike PC where it is relevant. >If so, what use is this page? Jesus. Fuck you, too. All you're doing is going in circular logic without giving any valid reason as to why anyone who isn't obsessed with release dates like you would give a shit about a dates column which not only doesn't add anything worth of value, it also clogs up the page width even more, and with something that isn't even relevant to a vast majority of people, all of which don't give a shit. Further more, games are released in different dates in different regions. Are you seriously going to add every single one just to satisfy yourself? --Dejiko 07:30, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

It's stupid to have to compare pages in history to see which things are new. --Silverwilver 19:56, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

That's the way it is. There's a recent changes page and a history page. It takes less than a few seconds for things to load assuming a viewer doesn't run dial-up, and the changes are immediately obvious. It's more stupid to have a year column. Even more so for the reasons I already listed. --Dejiko 22:27, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

I'm gonna go and ignore everything said so you can go ahead and delete this discussion if you want Dejiko. Some guy changed it back to the version that you disliked. And yes, fuck me for using circular logic. --Silverwilver (talk) 03:04, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Specific Metacritic Scores
So while I like the idea of having the names being colored to reflect the opinions of game critics, I wanted to see if there was a way to add the specific critic and user scores to the games themselves.

Adding a new column seemed to mess things up, so I tried adding them right under the title. I think it looks too awkward.

Any ideas? Or, if you think this is a shitty idea, let me know. I only put the scores on the first three games, just for testing purposes. Let me know what you guys think about it.

I think the colored font is enough of a compromise. Yeah, it doesn't cover the user score and critic score, but it's still enough for general ideas of how some people look at a game. Typically, if a game is red and still on here, there's a reason for that which is explained in description (however bluntly it may be). I do think having them is good for those who care though, especially when you can explain it. A general consensus between critic and user is good, but a split between them is honestly worth noting. I think a nice alternative to this without messing up formatting or "fluffing out" cells would be to list a googledocs set up (or some alternate similar thing) and link it at the bottom. While it might be taxing and arguably redundant as a task for you or any other one person here to take on, if we're allowed to edit it, then it can go more smoothly (assuming no jackasses wreck it and fuck up everything beyond recovery (here's hoping not)). I'd also say add a special note or two (though 3 is likely one too many) as well on why a game may have scored low or rather so-so (like around 60% or lower) with either and/or both groups when it's relevant. For example: I know that Musou/Warriors (Dynasty, Samurai, etc.) games tend not to do well with critics and even several non-critics, but for the most part, they're pretty good games, especially when certain ones stand out and/or fix issues (like how Dynasty Warriors 7 was a return to favor from DW6). Another example is Megaman Battle Network 4. Didn't do too well with either side of the critic-user coin (I don't like it much either); but, for better or worse, it's generally considered worth playing (or at least trying) by a number of people. It ain't a bad game, just a mediocre BN game, due to high standards, especially after 3. Just small tidbits like that. They don't even have to be complete sentences. These won't always be necessary of course, and I don't think we even need them for EVERY game, but some people are likely to do a double-take when seeing a game in the red, or something that looks as goofy as Air Traffic Chaos and wonder why someone would recommend playing it.

In my head, I see them being short, yet relevant in something like this (except just 2 or so, and only when notable). It wouldn't be a "review", so much as a sort of "reasoning", I guess.



--Dejiko 04:55, March 27, 2012 (UTC)

A public google document for anyone to upload would honeslty probably be a lot faster to maintain and it'd probably look a lot better. And as long as there's a master copy saved as a document, there sholdn't be too much of a problem.

Plus, it'll allow people on here to voice their opinions for the game without having to edit the description to fit their own thoughts. Should be easier, overall.

I'll try to get to work on it and see what I can come up with.

Celtisium 06:21, March 27, 2012 (UTC)

Great! Thanks in advance. Though, I was thinking less of opinions (I mean, we have the talk page for that), so much as key notes. Another example of what I was talking about (this one on DS) was Fighting Fantasy. Solid game, though kinda tough, but really old-school. As a result, critics and some users hated it. I think if an opinion is close enough to a fact it can be justified though. I mean, "old-school" is technically an opinionated-adjective, even though games that are considered this do tend to follow certain patterns. Another example: I think if games are difficult enough/too easy, it might warrant a note, specifically where it might affect score and/or favor. Some people are natural gaming whizzes, but I think even they can acknowledge a game as being intended to be difficult/easy. I think this is going to be easier in practice than theory honestly. That said, thanks again. This is probably one of the most popular pages due to still being relevant for 3DS owners. --Dejiko 00:56, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, I get what you mean. So just a few notes that can maybe sway people into deciding if they want to pick up the game or not? That's a pretty good idea.

Yeah, I'll try to set something up on Google Docs for this page. I don't mind branching out into the other Current Gen consoles if it's a speedy process, but I'll let you know when I have it all good to go.

Celtisium 02:24, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

Casual "Classic" Games?
Games such as Cooking Mama 3 or Nintendogs are often frowned down upon but are pretty fun and full of stuff to do to keep you hours and hours addicted. Other than that I can easily consider them both the best at what they do in there genres.

Nintendogs is whenever we like it or not is considered a classic by both many Nintendo fans and Nintendo itself, considering it keeps getting references in games such as Wario Ware or Super Smash Bros, besides… It is pretty impressive as one of the first launch titles on the Nintendo DS to have impressive 3D smooth animation and nice touch screen features.

Cooking Mama 3 should also be featured around here because I don’t really see a single Cooking Mama, and considering Cooking Mama 3 is pretty much the best of the series, having lots of recipes to practice and shopping mini-games which are more of a forced feature and don’t prize you at anything but a somewhat extra bonus.

So it would be nice to consider adding these classics because they are indeed very good games.

Masterfox3000 19:02, June 2, 2012 (UTC)masterfox3000Masterfox3000 19:02, June 2, 2012 (UTC)